Yesterday morning’s disgracefully disastrous ‘town hall meeting’ to explain and pacify, if not resolve the anger of multi-ethnic residents of Section 23 Shah Alam did not end just there. Today, Selangor State Exco Dr. Xavier Jayakumar issued a statement claiming possibility of ‘outsiders’ involvement in the ‘town hall meeting’, which ended in Selangor Pakatan Rakyat MB making a ‘Flip-Flop’ decision of ‘temprorarily suspending’ the relocation of the temple.
Rocky has the story on his second blog.
Did Dr. Jayakumar lie, in his sordid attempt to save face of the Selangor Pakatan Rakyat Government, which lately has been plagued by all sort of scandals, from ‘Korban cows’, ‘Eli Wong affair’, DAP Excos and representatives in corrupt practices and linkages to Vices, ‘Flip-Flop’ policy on alcohol and finally ‘zakat for development’ (which inevitably made HRH Sultan murka)?
The fact is that, at the ‘town hall meeting’, only residents with official inivitation letters issued by MBSA are allowed to attend. Apart from some 40 Hindu Sanggam representatives (who are deemed stakeholders to the temple relocation proposal) and journalists, even the Police were not allowed in and turned away. Security was provided by MBSA security personnel and PAS’s own unit amal.
If there were ‘oustiders’ in the ‘town hall meeting’, which took place at the MBSA Banquet Hall, then it must be people who are non residents and not individually issued invitation letters, which are the Hindu Sanggam people. The fact also is that specific individual invitations were issued because Selangor Pakatan Rakyat Government wanted to ensure only stakeholders attend the ‘town hall meeting’. How could MBSA security failed in their vetting, when those attending need to show their official invitation letters before they are allowed into the hall?
We seriously hope Pakatan Rakyat did not do this (failure to control the expected angry crowd) on purpose.
Regardless, there were video recordings and photos of the humilaitingly failed ‘town hall metting’. Why don’t the Selangor Pakatan Rakyat Government go through all the materials and make a Police report on individuals who are not supposed to be there but attended and caused disturbance?
The "thirteen million plus Ringgit" guy rambles.... 
disgracefully disastrous
ha ha ha, like your choice of words
Memang memalukan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBKOt84OhDY
Indian is minority, when in Rome do as the Romance do.
They are 6% of total population of Malaysia, act like majority.
So many temples scattered around Malaysia and still the government allowed.
Aku setuju sangat.
Org Bkn Islam kadang kadang buat berhala & rumah ibadat ikut kesempatan mereka shj. Contohnya tempat aku di Sg. Kayu Ara ini. Setahu aku, kawasan bersebelahan Damansara Utama/Jaya entah berapa gereja ada. Tak silap aku ada sekurang kurangnya 4-5 buah. Kawasan SS 21 saja ada 3! Belum Bdr Utama lagi. Berbanding dgn Masjid, umat Islam DU/DJ kongsi satu kariah.
Soal kuil Hindu ni aku pernah dengo dgn mata/kepala aku sendiri. Mufti Perak Datuk Seri Harussani pernah menyebut dalam satu majlis bukapuasa/terawih rumah seorang VIP thn 2007 mengenai Perak: Umat Islam > 50%. Penganut Hindu 2000!
Bolehke kerajaan kawal pembinaan rumah ibadat tanpa dijadikan isu politik & perkauman; mcm kes Sek 23?
Barang diingat peruntukan Perlembagaan menetapkan Islam itu “Agama Persekutuan Tanah Melayu”. Dan ugama lain dibenarkan dianuti. Tapi penganut ugama lain perlu berhemahlah dlm proses mereka practic ugama & adat resam mereka, selagi tak timbulkan sensitivity pada org Melayu.
Tak betulke?
Betul.
Kita jangan undi mereka lagi masa akan datang.
Dalam Pukatan Rakyat (PR), ada parti Islam (PAS), ada parti Melayu (PKR) tapi mereka bergelumur dan bergelut mengejarkan kuasa antara mereka hingga rakyat jadi mangsa. Rakan sebantal mereka pulak, DAP, di siasat rasuah, di tomah berkaitan dengan kogsi gelap, samseng dan gengster. Berbagai isu: fasal jual beer lah, rumah urut bersepah lah, tempat kuil Hindu lah – macam macam.
Dulu banyak orang meradang kapada Pak Lah, undi Pukatan. Sekarang kita tahu bahru 1 tahun lebih dah bermacam macam masaelah. Bertaubat lah kita, jangan pilih mereka lagi.
Wish the Hindu’s show some tolerance and respect for the feelings of the majority in Section 23 and pull out from there.
Maybe that is asking too much from our fellow Malaysians?
And in return, everybody should just continue to vote out UMNO. I think its a fair deal 🙂
Mate, UMNO didn’t relocate the temple, the idiots in PR did. UMNO didn’t say they did relocate the temple, PR did relocate the temple and lied about it, even though there are letters of meetings chaired by the PR exco and signed by her on the agreement of the relocation. UMNO didn’t offend the Hindus, the PR and the Hindus themselves did. UMNO didn’t bring the cows head, to the State Building, the residents did. UMNO didn’t go on protesting in the middle of the road, the PR did, wait, Anwar did. UMNO didn’t say that in anything, blame the opposition without looking yourself in the mirror, the PR did, wait, DAP did. UMNO didn’t want to offend the Hindus by bringing the cows head in which shows disrespect to the Hindus, the PR did, oh wait, the related people of Shah Alam which had voted UMNO out did and they actually made a police report on those politicizing their true means of justice. UMNO didn’t win in Selangor, the PR did. UMNO didn’t cause chaos in PR states, the PR did, oh wait, the people which voted UMNO out of those states did. Like the Big Guy said, if you are a PR sympathist, I can understand.
Dear Mr. J.Indang,
This is what Leelamutu said
Wish the Hindu’s show some tolerance and respect for the feelings of the majority in Section 23 and pull out from there.
Maybe that is asking too much from our fellow Malaysians?
Basically he or she is asking citizens (via social contract as has been pointed out repeatedly over here) to move off from a piece of land, in order to show tolerance.
Maybe you agree or maybe you don’t.
So in the same vein, I said its fine as long as people vote out UMNO. Whats so wrong in that? Thats compromise right?
Anyhow how can you say:”
UMNO didn’t want to offend the Hindus by bringing the cows head in which shows disrespect to the Hindus, the PR did, oh wait, the related people of Shah Alam which had voted UMNO out did and they actually made a police report on those politicizing their true means of justice”
The agitators are already well known – Opposition blogs have unmasked their identities as having some relations to the UMNO hierarchy.
In case you are not aware of your fellow UMNO mafia, lets refresh your mind courtesy of some Disobedient & Ungrateful Malaysia
Berdasarkan klip youtube tersebut, Nadzham mendakwa bahawa dalang sebenar perhimpunan terbabit adalah Pengerusi Penaja Umno Cawangan Seksyen 23, Hj. Azmir Md. Zain, di sini…
I put it to you the following:
(a) Songkok Tinggi Man is the chief instigator as witnessed in countless video clips of the demonstration and the ruckus in the State Government Hearing
(b) Songkok Tinggi Man not only uttered seditious comments, he also threatened MB Khalid with his life should he enter into Section 23
(c) The other chief culprits as identified in the demo are
(i)Mahyuddin Manaf – Treasurer of Pemuda UMNO in Shah Alam
(ii)Sohaimi Shahadan – KP UMNO Selayang
(iii) The sunglassess boy and the shoulder length hair with dark sunglasses who are UMNO gedebe
(d) That the fact that police arrested the Hindraf demonstrators who were singing on their candlelight vigil protest and did not arrest the Cow Head demonstrators cannot be justified, unless a separate law applies to UMNO and another law to the rest of the country.
In conclusion, there is so much irrefutable proof in the internet, by way of the individuals involved, the threats of violence, the attempt to stir up racial and religious sentiment, the lack of police action, the behaviour during the Town Hall meeting, that this all had the hallmarks of UMNO which was pathetically disguised as a demonstration by the Muslim residents of Section 23.
Which leads me to the conclusion, that if Leemuthu takes a narrow point of view and ascribes this commotion to the fact that Hindus live and exist in Section 23, and suggests that Hindus leave so as to show respect and tolerance, then it is very fair that if respect and tolerance is what we want, then UMNO must go, as a self sacrifice so the rest of the country will not be interrupted by their constant provocation.
Am I PR sympathesizer. Of course yes. And so is the bulk of the country as proven in all the byelections held over the last year and half that shows UMNO has lost the support of the Malays, the Chinese and other races.
Just because BN lost by-elections in Opposition strongholds, does not mean the rakyat reject UMNO holistically. UMNO only lost P36 Kuala Terengganu to PAS within all these by-elections. Even that, it was because UMNO fielded a Khairy Jamaluddin close associate as a candidate.
The fact is that, in the last two by-elections which UMNO contested, the majority of Opposition wins have been narrowed. Especially in Manek Urai, where UMNO had a significantly 95% improvement from the 12GE. Despite UMNO fielded a wrong candidate again in recently concluded Permatang Pasir, the majority was narrowed by 10%. That, factored with the fact is party-less Opposition Leader Anwar “Drama King” Ibrahim’s stronghold since 1982, is a significant improvement for UMNO (Considering that even big names like Dato’ Dr Ibrahim Saad lost to PKR there once!).
If UMNO loses a stronghold like Bagan Pinang, then only you can say “UMNO has been rejected by rakyat Malaysia”.
As simple as that!
Hmmm… that maybe, still, what about the rest of the 50 whom protested? According to you Nutcase, if I am able to count this correctly, there are the Songkok Tinggi Man, Mahyuddin, Sohaimi and two UMNO gedebes(whatever that means in this part of the country, thus shows clearly where you stand), which makes what, 50? Instigated usually means you are apart of the foul play, the main point of the previous post is that and I believe by the Big Guy as well, is that how could someone like that be invited in such event, wait, this should be you area of expertise, isnt it? As the Big Guy said, these people was invited by letter to residents, with security checks both from MBSA and PAS’s Provisional Arm, (which when I was a student, are the ruckus starter and the yelling-like-a-hooligan-with-vulgar words- in-the-language-which-is-the-same-as-where-you-stand-in-from avid supporter) the Unit Amal. Honestly, from time and time again we see the PR with their incompetence, easily blame UMNO for anything, and anything but looking in the mirror and see how those other non-UMNO people doesn’t want the temple to be there as well. You seem to be missing the point where, the protest is not instigated by UMNO, if they are where are your proof. Protest mate, not the ruckus in the hall. At least I would be happy if they made such ruckus indoors where they can be no pain in the ass for the rest of us. You missed the point again with what they really meant on the protest/rally, not to offend the hindus, but to compare, in their own beliefs and within the world of understanding as it is, as stupid as a cow. If they were desecrating the hindus rights and beliefs, they would’ve put the cows head in front, or in the temple itself. If you eat beef, does it mean you desecrating the hindus beliefs? When you do your Qurban, where cows head on the road/street/pavement or wherever necessary, does it mean that we are intolerant as well? If you stop politicizing the cow’s head, this will all be clear. I am not a resident of seksyen 23 but I would say that the goat’s head will work as well. If that then, which religion do we offend then? When all you lot marched with your yellow shirt, I am sure deep in some corner of this country, someone is offended since the colour yellow is sacred to them. You paraded it as though you were the champions of the earth. With children and all. Nice parenting, isnt it? Back to the issue at hand, does these UMNOs which is not the majority, 5 out of the whole lot it the hall be let in, hmmm… maybe, they are a resident as well? You seem to see that they are not, then, why blame this 5 since you control the state, you control the meeting, you have your own gedebes/bouncers in the front door, it is your party(i.e fiesta/carnival) mate and if you yourself fail to control your own party why do blame others? And 5 out of 50? A majority? 5 out of 50 can influence the MB to relocate the temple? How impotent is the MB? Or maybe the right question is, how stupid is he? Why didn’t they remove the 5 from the 50? Because they were residents? If they were, regardless of UMNO or PKR or even the Tupperware party, don’t you PR people believe that they have the right to express dissent, in their own way? Since, as long as I can remember, this freedom of speech without being proper thing, is your teachings, correct? Marching in the middle of the street, getting everyone else stuck in our cars, a pain in the ass, these are your teachings, correct? Wait…. does this means that you teach hypocritical too? The Big Guy, to me, highlighted that you shouldnt/couldnt be a leader by wrong virtues of your opposition, impotent because you cant stand up on your own. Where is your virtue of leadership? You kept on saying that because some event in something else is mistreated, hence this, truth of yours is true. If the car is red in colour, you have to agree that the particular car is red, not the car is red since the car next to it is blue. What are the relations between the these people protesting in Shah Alam with the candle light vigil which, weirdly, happens somewhere not in Shah Alam, since it is because of these Shah Alam Indians? Different laws? Are you taking a piss? Illegal gatherings are in fact, ILLEGAL. Can’t say anything but that. The difference is, either you tell the whole world about it before or not, in this particular case. Since the MB didn’t use the police in the meeting, using his own army, why don’t these same people go out and go on a witch hunt, finding those whom spoke against the government of the state, where, freedom is not like they campaigned to be. Freedom is what they say is free. What the hell…. If your own house is broken mate, go mend it yourself. No use of crying foul over someone that could be nowhere related to it. Again, please remember, wrong forum, this is not where we discuss tolerance, you have the DAP for that, a model of tolerance, this is where you find out if you are really meant for what you asked for, a chance to administer a state, not a chance anymore. You are the administer, so are these your worth? You can spin that, oh how can we administer properly since we are being forever brought to chaos by UMNO, then again, look at yourself in the mirror. Does Perak sounds familiar? Even in the federal government, you have oppositions, the hell, the holier than thou gayboy anwar is the head, so, are these only your worth? Is this the best you can do? Blame others? It is your state, the capability to control it should be yours, if not, then why, are you there in the first place? Lying to the people that you can is one thing, if you can’t then get the hell out. Let others who can, do it, since your promise for the best interest of the people, is only to you, what is best for the people. Go sell your curry someplace else.
another UMNO village idiot ably supervised by an overweight canine. say indang, are you Songkok Tinggi in disguise? you sound like one…
I can agree with you on the village part, nothing else. Seems like rural areas residents like me, are not worth your PR’s attention. Voted for you and this is how you let me down. Why such comparisons to village, again? Do you feel that anyone living in the village is not up to your intellectual level? Do you feel that we the village part of the PR states, which voted for you, are not supposed to interfere or even give our honest opinion on how you manage our states, our constituents? Just who the hell you think you are, we voted for you, we should have a share in saying our opinions. You expect all the rural part of this state to just sit on our arse and see you destroying the very bit you created, with my and all of us’ help? Remember mate, we helped you to be in power, you, should be working for the interest of the people. Not your own. Being a statesman is actually being a man for the state. Not just for you own deluded sense of justice and impartiality. Apparently you are just the same as UMNO, but different label on top of the can.
Kalid samat mcm Nizar/N.ajis juga..
Dia guna ayat Allah untuk halalkan perjuagan Hindu nya.
“berlaku adil” memetik ayat Quran.
Adil kebendanya? Tempat Islam bagi kat Hindu? adil ka?
Mungkin kat Kg. Cina boleh buat kuil. Syaratnya bayar pampasan (Cina majoritinya nak duit aje).
@ Suruuhla Muslim convert jadi Hindu dulu @ buat fatwa baru N. ajis “boleh solat dlm kuil”.
Xavier like his boss, the MB, is very much a kepala bodoh. The trauma at the town hall must have utterly shocked and embarrassed him; all his Christian pride in for fighting the Hindu cause (actual motive – canvassing minority political support and leverage) had suddenly vaporized and in disbelieving he exasperated “this can’t be happening to my dream child!” Slow like a lembu, Xavier was too lembab to react to the realities presented and so as usual the easy way – blame others. I take this zealot’s words without any pinch of salt;
We at BigDogDotCom feel that Pakatan Rakyat Selangor MB Khalid Ibrahim days are really numbered. Clear indications are:
1. He did not accompany HRH Sultan Sharafuddin Idris Shah of Selangor upon the reception and dedication of KD Tunku Abdul Rahman on Thursday
2. State Exco Dr Hassan Ali went to present the case of alcohol policy to HRH Sultan Selangor instead of the MB, which is highly unlikely when an MB is still on duty
3. The Section 23 temple relocation proposal attracted the attention of HRH Sultan Sharafuddin Idris Shah officially and also personally.
4. The proposal of using ‘zakat for development’ really did not go well with HRH Sultan Sharafuddin Idris Shah
5. The Selangor State Exco really went into badlight when MACC intensified allegations about DAP elected representatives being involved in abuse of power, corrupt practices and finally Lords of the Underworld Vices.
6. Personal loan of RM 67 mn to Bank Islam and High Court order to pay does not look good for the Chief Executive of the wealthiest state in the Federation
If this attempt by one of MB Khalid’s Exco Dr. Jayakumar attempted to lie about the ‘outsiders attending the disgracefully disastrous town hall meeting on Saturday’ and being blown wide open by MSMs, then the credibility of Selangor Pakatan Rakyat Government under Khalid will sink deeper.
The question now who will replace MB Khalid if HRH Sultan Selangor no longer want him as MB?
Will it be YB Dr Hassan Ali or YB Azmin Ali?
Agree with you, Biggum.
Even LKS seems to be saying so. Though not in those words – just read to day’s news reports.
He is worried, he said. DAP is currently facing an internal crisis, “unable even to take care of itself”. He lashed out at his own grouping; he said Pakatan Rakyat has “failed to achieve maturity”.
He is “very stressful” and “worried” as PR has also not fulfilled its promises to the people. “The people hesitate and even wonder whether they should pin their hopes in Pakatan,” said LKS.
More than that, he said, “… not only the people have started to wonder whether they have made a wrong decision to support Pakatan, I myself am disappointed, too.” Note that this is said by LKS himself.
He is worried that BN wants to regain the Selangor government and blames Selangor Pakatan for a “lack of a sense of crisis” and not resolving “its internal conflicts.”
With the internal conflicts going on, they may not be able even to agree on who to replace the poor, banyak problem Khalid.
Hey BigDog
Good Take on the situation in Selangor.
Dear Mr. Biggum Dogmannsteinberg,
Since its your blog, we have to respect your logic. Anyhow it is pointless arguing whether or not UMNO has or has not lost the support of the races. There will be more and more by elections, and if you want to use Bagan Pinang, so be it.
If UMNO wins Bagan Pinang, I will still come to your blog to see your point of view. After all, my only hope is that a win Bagan Pinang will mean UMNO will no longer continue to terrorize the peaceful loving citizens who are powerless to defend themselves against threats, incitement and the standard UMNO warfare.
Its a wish, after all. As you are well known to be a powerful blogger who can influence decisions, it is hoped that you share and communicate this wish.
But what happens if UMNO loses? Will we still be continued to be terrorized by you guys. Will you’ll still use cow heads, and utter seditious comments just to win support?
If that is the case, then I humbly ask Bagan Pinang residents to vote UMNO in this DUN election so that we can some peace, because if not we will continue to have to put up with crisis after crisis.
And out of curiosity, will Bagan Pinang be now adopted as an Anak Emas DUN???? Hopefully, the Anak Emas posters should feature a pullout, where they can replace each DUN’s name as it appears. Then perhaps UMNO need not spend RM 218 million on election posters.
I only hope the Bagan Pinang residents share my point of view. But then again, they just want to share in the achievement of entering the Guinness Book of Records as being the first DUN which managed to overturn a 4,000+ undi pos majority..
Wait and see, and hopefully a person not associated with Khairy Jamaluddin becomes the candidate so that you can’t excuse the defeat. On that note, what about Bukit Gantang, Pematang Pauh, Permatang Pasir and Manek Urai?
Hmmm, the funny thing is, reading the comments section, you started this UMNO lost the support of all the races thing , didn’t you?
Quoting the 2nd reply to the 5th comment (yours I believe), And so is the bulk of the country as proven in all the byelections held over the last year and half that shows UMNO has lost the support of the Malays, the Chinese and other races.
Hahahaha….pointless in arguing your own point? Hahahahahahaha…… not that I mean disrespect or anything. Anyway, I do agree in a sense, what will happen to UMNO if they lost in Bagan Pinang? Well perak only sits under a tree, I guess, that is a lot better, isnt it?
When democracy goes your way, you claim it is heavenly divine, when it didn’t, you claim foul play by UMNO. When 5 UMNOs out of 50 non-UMNO protested you say UMNO is purposely making chaos, when 50 non-UMNO out of the 5 UMNOs say they didn’t want the temple as well, you say the 5 UMNOs are responsible for reversing the decision, not that the 50 non-UMNOs which I would like to call residents, have indeed spoken not to your liking. How apparent that rodziah’s house is opposite the old proposed temple’s ground and under her jurisdiction, she moved it to someplace else, where all of these commotion began. When 50 protested, you only see the 5 UMNOs, not the 45 non-UMNOs (I wonder which party they do belong to) which probably voted UMNO out of their constituents to begin with. I guess your intelligence is just as far as your eyes can see.
Anyhow, Big Guy, I do wonder what happened to UMNO to begin with? How can they be this weak? The PR is winning not because of they are any good, but the UMNO, particularly the UMNO is successfully portrayed as the bad seed. Not the MCA or MIC (although they lost, even worst than UMNO), but UMNO. Even the MCA and MIC is chanting, not as loudly, that they blame UMNO for everything. Does Najib plan to do something about this?
Dear Mr. J. Indang,
Yes I started by saying UMNO has lost the support of the Malays, the Chinese and the Indians, using the evidence that it lost all of the elections contested where the demographics represented were of those races, albeit in varying proportion.
Mr. Biggum Dogmannsteinberg then claimed that that only a loss in Bagan Pinang can be taken as evidence that UMNO has lost the support. As this is his blog, I chose to defer to that form of logic.
So now its easy for UMNO sympathesizers to prove conclusively that UMNO still has the support. Just win in Bagan Pinang, I believe there is a 5,000 postal vote “disadvantage” there, so it should be made much easier.
I don’t see how you can choose to mock me when I accepted Big Dog’s challenge.
Now onto your 50-5-45 qualifications.
So we have not refuted the existence of the Cow Head 5 and their ties to UMNO.
We have also seen that the Cow Head 5 figured most prominently in the provocation attempts, from leading the march, to shouting the slogans to the racial incitement.
The 5 UMNO held sway because they were fanning religious sentiments and inciting the crowd. There used to be some act called the sedition act to deal with these kind of individuals, by I believe that here its the candle-light vigil act.
Any sane thinking person knows that in a mob, there are a few who are responsible for leading the mob. This we learn through experience, some also call it common sense.
The issue is not the whether or not the temple should be in Section 23 or not. The issue is when faced with such decisions, is the course of action to lead a racially charged protest with the police standing watch or to discuss in a fair , respectful and civilized manner.
By the way, which of the non-UMNO members can you single out who were most prominent in the demonstration. If there were, then you proved your point, right now, it seems that you are clutching at straws.
After all, UMNO should be proud that it can perpetrate such kind of behaviour and get away with it. Who says UMNO has lost power in Selangor? UMNO never modelled itself as being tolerant of anybody who disagrees with them, so why try and deny something that it is fused in the UMNO DNA.
“If that is the case, then I humbly ask Bagan Pinang residents to vote UMNO in this DUN election so that we can some peace, because if not we will continue to have to put up with crisis after crisis.”
this nutcase is ssooo powerful, he can dictate to the Bagan Pinang residents.
if I remember correctly, Malaysia was so peaceful almost dull when anwar was in prison
[QUOTE]Wait and see, and hopefully a person not associated with Khairy Jamaluddin becomes the candidate so that you can’t excuse the defeat. On that note, what about Bukit Gantang, Pematang Pauh, Permatang Pasir and Manek Urai?[/QUOTE]
what he meant was that those were ‘retained’ by PAS/PKR, not that BN lost the seat… u idiot!!!
Dear Mr. WTF,
Well its good that UMNO defines its measure of relevancy as its capability to retain what it had won in 08. Then at minimum Pakatan will still get the 5 states it had rightfully won, and BN can aim to just retain the other 8. Fine with me, and I wholeheratedly accept being called an idiot.
Dear Nutcase,
The issue is not about you accepting to be an idiot.
Its not about party this vs party that.
Its about understanding and compassion.
The Hindu’s know the residents don’t like it, why force it on them?
Find the alternative within a sea of goodwill and soldier on.
Simple.
And there I thought the Pakatan Rakyat actually means something, which wholeheartedly as one, unite with a common goal. So does this means that the others, who followed and protested with the UMNO 5 are there not by their own accord? Is this how you get these people to follow you, wholeheartedly, without thinking that if it is the right thing to do in the first place? Explain to me again, what is this pakatan is all about? Is it really about the rakyat, a collective of people who wanted the same thing, believed in the same idea of justice, longing for a change with a party claimed to better? Or is it about the selected few, lied to the masses about a false idea of justice, of truth and actually won a state for it? If you can’t control 5 people, how do you expect to control a state? The 50-5-45 conundrum is the idea of how majority is being undermined by the few, according to you. Highlighting the few, is not bad, since they have such control over the majority of the people in the hall, according to you. Again, what about the rest? The MB’s decision suspending the allocation, just and just because of a ruckus by 5 UMNOs? Hahahahaha….. You talk about being civilized, yet are you one? I do believe, in a civilized world, there should be channels to voice out your opinions, proper channels. But what had happened in Shah Alam was that the people didn’t know about the decision, apparently, hence the protest. If you do it right in the first place, do you think that the poor cow’s head would’ve been there to begin with? How can there be a prominent protestor among others, and 5 out of 50? Yet, the 50 protested, happily (probably) nonetheless, didn’t they? What about highlighting the rest, not the 5, what do they want? Do they want the temple there too? Again, MB, with their own security and bouncers, cannot get a hold of 5 people? Or if they are outsiders, how did they get in? MB let them in? Doesn’t it stated that the meeting was upon invitation, letters to residents, only to residents, oh yes, this inviting thing is your forte, isnt it? What is this democracy you preach, where the 5 is considered more than the rest, the majority. We didn’t hear in the video that the others want the temple to be anyways, did we? Now you talk about sitting down, discussing it properly, like you would, right? That maybe how you are, but as far as I know of the concept of this freedom of speech thing, shouldn’t it be their right to voice out their dissent? Again, if the 5 UMNOs are resident, and this is how they feel, isn’t that what you call the freedom of speech too? The freedom to express yourself, if I am not mistaken. I thought PR is championing this, freedom of speech thing. Look at all the protest you lot did in KL, where you feel like it is a calling from god, to everyone else stuck in traffic because of your deluded sense of justice, do you have the right to champion your cause at the expense of someone else? Hahahahaha…. whatever your deal with the Big Guy is yours alone, just wondered how low can you go. Remembering the Perak incident, somehow, this shouting and ruckussing, seems familiar, isn’t it? Sorry Big Guy, taken quite a few of your space. Somehow am allergic to someone who can’t take his/her own medicine.
Dear Mr. J.Indang,
I admire your persistence in trying to put forward your point, but I am afraid that you have some misconceptions which, I will, given the opportunity, try to set right.In order to stay true to your point of view, pls allow me the liberty to quote from your comment
Point #1
So does this means that the others, who followed and protested with the UMNO 5 are there not by their own accord?
Nothing wrong in protesting in fact it is a good culture brought in by DSAI and its good that UMNO is following suit. But it is morally wrong to incite hate by stepping on cows heads and claiming violence if your demand is not met; unfortunately the police see nothing wrong in that. That is my point – this was a mob and it was led by the Cow Head 5.
Point#2
You talk about being civilized, yet are you one? I do believe, in a civilized world, there should be channels to voice out your opinions, proper channels. But what had happened in Shah Alam was that the people didn’t know about the decision, apparently, hence the protest.
I think only Big Dog can determine who is civilized or not the same way he can determine who is ungrateful and disobedient or not. On Saturday, a “proper channel” was open but once again the UMNO 5 was prominent in their attempt to disrupt the proceedings. This too cannot be refuted.
Point #3
Again, MB, with their own security and bouncers, cannot get a hold of 5 people?
I believe the MB requested the police to be present but the police refused to appear. PR cannot be seen taking law into their hands, as this was what the UMNO 5 wanted to do in the first place.
Point #4
What is this democracy you preach, where the 5 is considered more than the rest, the majority.
Good point. So why did the UMNO 5 repeatedly try to disrupt the proceedings. Shouldn’t they have respected the wishes of the majority who had come to listen and not cause a ruckus. Maybe you should ask them since they belong to same political party as yourself.
Point#5
The freedom to express yourself, if I am not mistaken. I thought PR is championing this, freedom of speech thing.
Absolutely. You yourself can see why freedom of expression is important yet you support the one of the most tyrannical political parties in the world, who can rival Zanu PF from Zimbabwe. But when the UMNO 5 seek to express hate and incite racial wars, then as is the case in even the more developed democracies, it is a seditious offence or a hate crime as what they call in the West. Here we have the law, but the police apply one law to UMNO and another to the rest of the country. So it is this unfair application of the law which is a bother; maybe you should ask the Prime Minister to relax the sedition law so that is not illegal to incite hate amongst the races.
Point #5
Remembering the Perak incident, somehow, this shouting and ruckussing, seems familiar, isn’t it?
Oh yes the Perak incident. On one hand Big Dog says it is not important whether or not UMNO can regain the support it lost in the Pakatan states and then the Prime Minister goes and engineers a take over of the state. On what basis?
As I said, its ok to demo, its not ok to incite. Once again, the police shows how to apply the law to one group and to another.
That is totally wrong.
Selangor Pakatan Rakyat Government disallowed the Police in the ‘town hall meeting’. According to witnesses, the Police were turned away and MBSA took charge of the security. For obvious reasons the Police presence were not required.
We suspect:
1. They ‘invite’ trouble as PKR is synonymous with mobstreet politics. That is the only currency all these Reformasi people who now discover power understand. Orderly discussion something PKR aka Reformasi mobstreet anarchists lack of.
2. The typical theatrics that can be trumped up when there is trouble, especially with media attention
3. ‘Trouble’ means that MB Selangor is able to reverse the decision, which something that they failed to plan as Pakatan Rakyat is more interested ‘playing to the galery’ than really plan good things for Selangor
4. When there is trouble at the ‘town hall meeting’ and they can escalate it by inciting and instigating, they will fault the authorities such as the Police and Home Ministry when action is taken, even provided by the Constitution
5. This would justify MB Khalid going up to HRH Sultan Selangor and beg for early dissolution of the Selangor State Assembly. That is the very theatrics the Pakatan Rakyat wanted as they failed to get one from troubled-Perak
6. To point #5, MB Khalid days are already deemed numbered. Hence, getting a fresh mandate justify his existence within the Selangor mainstream politics
7. Making and prolonging this temple issue means the focus on Anwar “Mat King Leather” Ibrahim going through the trial has been shifted. ‘Racial and religious trouble’ is a very good diversion for former-abuse-of-power convict Anwar “Drama King” Ibrahim
In all intent and purpose, Selangor Pakatan Rakyat especially MB Khalid wanted the ‘town hall meeting’ to not only fail, but escalate into something really ugly!
For me, the masculine gender applies.
Hmmm, as far as I can understand, you are saying such events by explaining what was being said but based on no proof. The only proof we have of the event is the video of, what you claim as the 5 UMNO members, not refuting they are nor not, but on the more important side of it which is, the protest, again, through politicizing the cow’s head, you came to a conclusion that it is mainly aimed at the hindus, not the MB. Please read the police reports done by the protesters, or a protester, saying that clearly he, or they, didn’t bring the poor cow’s head to offend the hindus, it is to show how someone can be so stupid and comparing them to a cow. Everyone in this known universe knows that you can be stupid, and sadly, the whole animal kingdom has recognized that the cow, can or is one of the animal that can be attributed to such claim. One other is an ass, or donkey or mule. I am sure if those are abundant in this country, they would’ve used their head, not the cow’s. I don’t really see inciting hatred as much, it is a mob, like you used to do, if it is then it is no difference than what you are used to, isn’t it? If you have been to all these protest (which I think you do) then can you guarantee that no one says anything and does at least something that incites some, the least hatred? Tell me in which riot, you don’t incite hatred? And this is not even close to the riots you caused in the KL city centre. Again, you kept on coming with new stories, like the MB called the police and they are not interested, telling stories of zimbabwe, the PM engineers the takeover of Perak, those are, apart from the not related zimbabwe, the truth according to you. Stories, nonetheless. Not the absolute truth, isn’t it. The truth according to you, is it what you left me with? Where are the proof of these allegations? As far as I know of, your ADUNS betrayed you and one of them betrayed them back and then back to BN. Some of them became independent. If you read on Zul Noordin’s writings then you would know. I am just commenting upon what is going on, based on what you said and the blogger’s article. Now you are stressing on incite hatred, then again, look at yourself in the mirror, the namewee kid, where were you? Writings on the blog against the malays, where were you? If this is your idea of preventing hatred, apparently your side of the scale tips a lot more, haven’t you? Karpal Singh when confronted, clearly in the video, not even touched by the UMNO thugs. Gobalakrishnan’s video proven slap, so the list goes on and on, on both of our sides, with proof. Not just the truth according to me. Why can’t the majority stand up against the 5 UMNOs(according to you) I wonder? Why is it just the 5’s freedom of speech, disruptive as you say, is the one you are focusing? Where are the regulators in that meeting? If they are making ruckus, where are the police reports from the MB against these 5 UMNOs? Does this means that the MB is allowing the ruckus? That is dissent for you. Not all express themselves the way you do and not all can come up with new stories like you, either. If they are the residents, they have the right to be there and say what they feel like it. UMNO or not. If the MB is making decision based on these 5 UMNOs (according to you) then, he is not supposed to be the MB in first place. Why, pray tell, the MB bowed down to the 5 UMNOs? Shouldn’t the MB be thinking of the 45 in the hall, which is more 5, since the 5, are behaving nonsensical at all? The MB is used to bow down to thugs, hansn’t he? This is also according to you, isn’t it? I am dancing your tune here. But I found it rather odd why did the MB shelved the relocation because of the 5(according to you), since I think that the meeting actually went on a result which satisfies the whole, which includes the 5. Which comes the question of the 5 is actually representing the whole majority or… hmmm… weird isn’t it? Can the 5 actually influence the decision of the MB? Here, I believe we do have the law as well, and I read somewhere in the papers today that the cow’s head protestors are being charged in court. I do hope it is a swift justice, not delayed. No good comes from delaying, don’t you think? It does begs the questions why are you so afraid to go to court on this particular case and not others. And I do hope that the protesters, if not confident of the proceedings, ask to change the judge, not the prosecutors, since verdicts comes from judges, not lawyers. These people, as far as I can read are caught by the police, haven’t they? Hmmm…. where is this different standards in law enforcement… well… you can create anything after that, can you? Come on…. be creative, lets hear another conspiracy theory… Lets hear another story on how someone somewhere engineered this one, come on. No proof, haven’t you? All lies and spins. Another weird thing, the state government did made a mistake this time, and the shelved relocation plans have proved it, just admit it. Some people can just see through the incompetencies they are. If inciting hatred all you got, go to Lim Kit Siang’s blog or the guy that says things about the malays and sultans, I suggest, you can be in heaven all you want over there.
Hahaha… honestly mate, I believe you are going to come at this with a whole different story, story nonetheless. Not facts. At least I am asking questions, which you answered with another stories, such as you believed the MB called the police and they didn’t want to come…. hahahahahaha….. easy isn’t it? Creating something out of nothing, just to make sense out of what you feel is how the truth should be. The truth according to you. Not the absolutely truth. Yeah, sometimes, stupidity is so much intoxicating, isn’t it?
Dear Mr. J.Indang,
This is what you said :-
It seems that you trivialize my comments as saying it is based on invented stories, when I have it on good source, so lets just restrict to summarizing your comments. Hopefully you are not inventing stories
The only proof we have of the event is the video of, what you claim as the 5 UMNO members, not refuting they are nor not, but on the more important side of it which is, the protest, again, through politicizing the cow’s head, you came to a conclusion that it is mainly aimed at the hindus, not the MB. Please read the police reports done by the protesters, or a protester, saying that clearly he, or they, didn’t bring the poor cow’s head to offend the hindus, it is to show how someone can be so stupid and comparing them to a cow. Everyone in this known universe knows that you can be stupid, and sadly, the whole animal kingdom has recognized that the cow, can or is one of the animal that can be attributed to such claim
I put it to you that you are saying
(1) You do not confirm nor deny that Hj. Azmir Md. Zain, Mahyuddin Manaf and Sohaimi Shahadan are members of the United Malays National Organization and were pictured as being involved in the Cow Head demonstration.
(2) The protesters did not bring the Cow’s Head, it must have mis-appeared.
(3) That even when the protesters were spitting and standing on the cow’s head and dragging the bloodied head of the animal on the road, and threatening violence if their demands were not met, they were not inciting hatred against the Hindus.
(4) That to drag the head of a cow with blood still dripping and step and spit at it is commonly used to exemplify ones stupidity. Which culture says this again?
You further allege
I don’t really see inciting hatred as much, it is a mob, like you used to do, if it is then it is no difference than what you are used to, isn’t it?
I put it to you that
(1) In the light of the actions described above, you still are of the opinion that the purpose of the demonstration was not to incite hatred
(2) And when you say “if it is then it is no difference than what you are used to,isn’t it”, then you are now contradicting yourself, admitting the possibility that the purpose of the demonstration was to incite hatred but claim that is of the norm.
(3) That as outlined in point (2), it is normal for people to openly call and clamour for religious strife
You the add:
Here, I believe we do have the law as well, and I read somewhere in the papers today that the cow’s head protestors are being charged in court. I do hope it is a swift justice, not delayed. No good comes from delaying, don’t you think? It does begs the questions why are you so afraid to go to court on this particular case and not others. And I do hope that the protesters, if not confident of the proceedings, ask to change the judge, not the prosecutors, since verdicts comes from judges, not lawyers. These people, as far as I can read are caught by the police, haven’t they? Hmmm…. where is this different standards in law enforcement… well… you can create anything after that, can you? Come on…. be creative, lets hear another conspiracy theory…
I put it to you that
(1) when you say “I do hope it is a swift justice, not delayed. No good comes from delaying, don’t you think? ” you are now contradicting your earlier stance by saying that the protesters were not inciting hate by demanding swift justice.
I think you have successfully managed to take all the positions UMNO has taken on the cow head demonstration by first denying involvement, then claiming a bloodied head can be used to illustrate stupidity, then claiming no hate was intended to finally clamouring for swift justice.
As to other claims of racist and incitment by the DAP, please feel free to lodge a report at your friendly neighbourhood police station. I know not of any such offence but if the material is made available and it is clear that they are guilty of those crimes you accuse them of, I will offer my legal services to ensure the case is prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
The prosecution rests.
Word has it that some of these protester would be charged, which include Seditions Act by tomorrow.
Amongst them most likely to be charged are:
1. Ibrahim Sabri, Vice Chairman of the Section 23 Action committee who is a PKR member
2. Mahyuddin Manaf, a life PAS member
This is very clear that some of their own members are against Pakatan Rakyat’s Selangor Government decision of relocating the temple to their precinct.
Who among us has the crystal ball, definitely not me and I won’t want to amongst the false prophets or a declared half past dukun in projecting that Bagan Pinang election results will favor Pakatan. Trends in share market or economy can go off tangent because of uncertainties and manipulation of the many bases and assumptions we put in, so can trends in elections.
However, I am quite certain that infamous cow head incident should not be a critical determinant in the said results. If it does, that means Malaysian Indian voters have given up all rationality to nonsensical religious manipulations. Whoever wins the majority of the Malay votes should be the winner because the dominant faction in the area is the Malays. Otherwise a conspiracy of minorities thwarting the winner of the dominant faction spells much instability.
Negeri Sembilan is a BN controlled state which means Pakatan cannot offer any enticement to the Malay voters as in the case of Permatang Pasir where the winner the PAS candidate was promised to be given the religious functions upon his winning. It is good that Salleh Man won so that he can prove his mettle upon his appointment. If Salleh turns out to be like Dr Hassan Ali, then the former has to contend with the Agong, another messy affair for Pakatan. If Salleh Man fails to prove himself, PAS will be assured that their insignificant role in Pakatan will not be viewed positively by their grassroots.
I am sure the voters in Bagan Pinang know whose best for them in terms of economic prosperity, peace and harmony.
Hahahaha… I just stating the obvious, mate. The police report were done by them, the protest, the cow’s head and all. You said they were UMNO members, not me. It was all according to you, the songkok tinggi man or what not. Again, only the 5 you highlighted, not the rest of the protesters. How can you go to a protest when you don’t know what the protest is all about, that is what I am saying. To the few instigators, according to you, how can they be so good that they can blindly led another 45, and the 45 followed like zombies. Surely something is a miss. Instigated or not, how can you, as a person be persuaded by the selected few to go on such protest, it is 5 instigating another 45, hahahaha…. and you say as if when one run amok, all of them follows. So if the 5 (according to you) are UMNOs instigating the protest and ruckus (according to you again), why do the others follow? The others, surely some are from, or all are from PR. This is the residents’ issues, residents problems. The state government is involved, flip flopping all the way. The dissent, according to you were instigated from the 5 UMNOs, then why does all the other 45 from various parties, probably, follow on doing it? That is quite funny. If that is true, then, this racial hatred has come from such a long way, from the moment it was started. It started, from what I can remember on tele, protests were tools used by the opposition, mainly anwar towards the government. It spelled racial hatred all the way. Inciting hatred, it all started from there, in my opinion. How do we look at that, now? Isn’t it the same, apart from the cow’s head. By contradicting me, your MB’s reputation, have become such miniscule that he is not only not relevant to me, as one of the rakyat of selangor, he also is now, incompetent. He can’t even control a crowd of 5, how can he control the state. Again, when your own laws works against you, you go on trying, I say, trying to discredit the people who gives opinion, wanting to see you better. You can’t rule with no substance, especially on your opponents wrong virtues. Now, you have proved just that, only focusing small other details, which makes you feel good, about yourself. Go look at yourself in the mirror. Is that the best you can do? Above all, it has happened and the protestors (what is that double standard on the law again) are going to be prosecuted. Such hypocrites, can’t even take your own medicine.
good lord, it makes my head spin just to try to follow this thread. you folks are beginning to sound like squabbling lawyers to me. it doesn’t help that mr nutcase is sitting on his high horse dispensing his gems of ‘mutiara kata’ to all and sundry… hey indang! cheers!
i think most people are missing the point, and from what ive seen, people are focusing more on the cow’s head rather than the issue at hand.
the demonstration was done by people from both sides of the party, it wasn’t just UMNO people, PAS people were there as well. so lets just end it at that shall we?
the issue is to determine if the temple should or should not be there in the first place.
quit being a moron and grow up for once.
The cows head is precisely the issue because it shows beyond a shadow of doubt to what extent UMNO will go to play up racial and religious sentiment. That is the issue, and I will take a leaf out of the great Pakatan leaders and not respond to your obvious provocation
nutcase nutcase
give it up lah, you are losing steam
1) the cow head = blindly following orders
2) it was directed at khalid gagap
3) it was not brought to any hindu temple
4) unlike the pig heads thrown into a surau
you wanna still instigate the hindus against the muslims eh??
Bro Ray, just brilliant in not so many words you unravel the nutcase lawyer as just another Pakatan groupie who persistently attempt to instigate the hindus against the muslims.
Laaa, tak abih lagi ke? Nih satu lagi, korang nengok la sendiri, kelakar pun ye, betul pun ye, salah pun ye..
http://graduanmelayumuda.blogspot.com/2009/09/hikayat-sang-lembu.html
adios, kawan2.
Nak bina rumah IBADAT, telah dicemar dengan bermacam incidence..hmmmm..
Kita membina rumah ibadat dikawasan yang nyaman dan penuh restu, to bring peace and stability to the people especially those living nearby.
It is the same as building a prostitute facility that will create so much destructions to the people around the vicinity!
Shame, to insist, knowing that as you go in to get your own blessings, the majority around will be cursing?.. WHAT A PLACE TO GO TO!
UMNO better win at Bagan Pinang, no two ways about it, in fact menang satu undi pun cukup. PR people are intoxicated with their own delusion “the people have rejected BN”, such arrogance, such contempt for UMNO. To UMNO leaders, Bagan Pinang will be your waterloo, stop the infighting, stop the rot and return UMNO to its rightful position.
nutcase says, “I will take a leaf out of the great Pakatan leaders and not respond to your obvious provocation”
not respond or cannot respond
the greatest pakatan leader was an ex-convict jailed for corruption, abuse of power plus sodomy, even with nine superb lawyers defending him
and now lo and behold, he is facing sodomy2 trial
and he has been going round the world to criticise his own country, the one he wants to lead
so your definition of greatness is ….
what again????
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